That Burning Pricing Question

[BaddaBing]

Why is everyone so impatient here about pricing.
-Wes Black
http://www.xlobby.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5559

The answer is quite simple. You are using the members of this forum as a no cost resource to develop a product that you plan to sell. If you had to pay a team to beta test and QA your software you are looking at tens of thousands of dollars. I know what QA costs because I sell software testing services for a company that has 2000+ consultants doing nothing but software testing.

People want to know if it is worth their time to help you. What if the price of this product, even with the promised discounts, is still not within the reach of the average Xlobby forum member? Do you honestly expect people to provide free feedback and support for something they potentially may not be able to afford?

Will it be priced to compete with MS Media Center, CQC, Main Lobby or Crestron? I find it hard to believe that you would enter into a business venture without at least an idea of what you thought the finished product would sell for. If you can give the members an honest estimate of what you plan to charge then they can make an educated decision if they want to devote time and effort to your project.

The majority of the members of this forum have been very supportive of Steve's decision to go commercial. The very least they deserve is some honesty in return.

[wesblack]

Steven and I have plenty of resources to test the software, we simply want to use the forum for people who have comments to make it better and to keep previous users in the loop, so if they want they can purchase a future version with more power or features if they need it. Steven and I already know most users will just keep using the free version they have, why would they move forward and pay for something they have had for free that works. We have already sold many complete systems with the new build to customers and installers that have provided plenty of feedback. The software already has really what we need at the moment to sell as a total media management solution, music, movies, etc. to our current target markets.

I Repeat that if users want to make a better product for everyone to use then they can support us on the forum, if not that's each person's personal decision. Everyone who is using the free version should be greatful to Steven for all of his past hard work.

I have over 10 years in the development of HTPC media based technologies and 25 + years in the Audio - Video product development sector, If we needed to pay for testing on our own, we are fully capable of doing this. Steven and I agreed to keep the forum users involved because of all the support he has received over the years from everyone.

We are really monitoring the current position of all the other companies in this area of Media content management products, we do not want to quote product costs that people will hold us accountable for or the competition will use against us at the moment.

We really appreciate your support and would like everyone to be involved if they want. It is to soon to put all the pieces together in such a short time.

Baddabing, Steven and I have been completely honest about what we are doing with everyone, so I don't understand your comment here !

I don't think waiting until early June for pricing is un-reasonable. We have not asked anyone on the forum to develop or support skins, plugin's, etc. for free to support our efforts here.

We have kept everyone's comments on the forum, good or bad intact, unlike other companies that remove post's they dont like or beleives hurts there image or there products marketability.








Wes Black \ Calrad

[P3rv3rt B3ar]

* Performing indian rain dance ritual to quench all the flames before they even start *

Bear-who-dances-not-so-good

[BaddaBing]

I was not questioning your honesty or ethics. If that is how you understood it then let me clarify my position.

It appears that people constantly asking about price has you a bit vexed. You are aware that the majority of the members of this forum are not wealthy, right? The question about price keeps coming up because members that can’t afford expensive software simply want to know if they should start looking for an alternative.

When would someone pay for something that is now free? When it stops working. It is not a question of if the last free version will stop working but when. Look at how many times new versions of the software Xlobby is built on have broken the product.

You don’t need to quote an actual price. Look at Crestron for example. They do not advertise their prices but do make it quite clear that their target market is the upper 10% of income earners. If your target market is system integrators and high end home theaters just say so. No one will fault you if for making as much money as you can.
.
You say you agreed to keep the forum users involved because of all the support received over the years. . My comments were not meant to question your honesty but to reiterate my belief that this history of support warrants letting us know if we are your future market or not. We still support Steve and we are grateful for the work he has done in the past, but we are just asking the same question The Clash once asked; “Should I stay or Should I Go?"

Cheers,
baddabing

[BaddaBing]

Performing indian rain dance ritual to quench all the flames before they even start

Bear-who-dances-not-so-good

PervBear, that is frikin funny!

[Naylia]

Personally, I've just decided to wait until they figure it out. I'd love to be making upgrades to my skin to take advantage of fun new features, but until it gets to full release v3 with pricing I'll probably be sitting on the sidelines. Then I'll evaluate and decide whether to jump in...for know I'll just enjoy the existing old version. Vista is lurking out there as are newer versions of other products, but I'm not quite ready to head that way either. So for now, watch and wait...

[wesblack]

baddabing

Please explain, where is everyone going to go, I don't understand this. Everyone here can still use and support the old free xlobby just like before. Yes we want to support the Installer and systems integrator market, we beleive this is where the most users will benefit from the power of xLobby, but we did not want to leave everyone behind.

Why is it necessary to move on. Yes you are part of the future market. If users here have a home theater system, PC, hard drives, touch screens, DSL, etc. and plenty of free time to devote to this website how poor can they be. The software will not break the bank here !







Wes Black \ Calrad

[samgreco]

Wes,

Please understand that we are not trying to beat up on you. I can tell that this is frustrating the hell out of you. My apologies for doing that to you. BUT...

In the other thread you mentioned that I could continue to use XLobby because obviously it is still working for me. Well, that isn't the case. I haven't used XLobby for quite some time. I just really want to, but can't until there is RS-232 support at least. Well that is coming I'm told.

But will I need Homeseer for automation costing me $200? Or if I buy that will I be wasting my money?

So spend money now on MainLobby or CQC and get on with it? Or wait for what might come from XLobby?

That is my dilema. So I will have to make my decision based on the information I have at the time I need to make my decision. Unfortunately, I need to make a decision pretty much now. Hence my "impatience."

So again, my apologies for seeming pushing, impatient, annoying, etc. I just don't spend $625 lightly, so I try to get all of the facts first.

Sam

[wesblack]

Thanks for providing some information that I can address. We will definatly be adding advanced Home automation into xLobby. There will be an affortable version that provides some home automation and basic Rs232 control the other versions will scale up in features and power from there.

I think we need to provide some kind of timeline for features, maybe this will be helpful for those who need certain things right now, I will discuss this with Steven on Monday.





Wes Black \ Calrad

[dalanik]

I've been very quiet lately waiting to see what's going to happen... I see that everyone's as nervous as I am, and I have to agree, if not woth points other have raised, then with the general feeling of being a bit lost and looking into competition, in my case, MediaPortal.

First of all, I dislike the fact that there are going to be several XLobby versions. Reminds me of M$, and their several Vista versions or MS Office... What if the feature I need is 400$ more expensive than the basic version - even worse, what if this PRO version has several other features I don't need and only 1 I do?

Or even worse, (IMHO the worst scenario that could happen) if you follow meedio's footsteps and sell each plugin separately? Now, I'd REALLY hate that! It would really slow down the development by external authors.

Second, if I pay for the s/w, I expect it's mine. I hate this M$ bull$hit, "we're renting you software for 3 year period" stuff. I want it to continue working, no matter what happens to the company that made it.

Third, I don't want the s/w to be dependant (in technical sense) to the site/server of the software company that made it. Speaking of licence stuff Steven mentioned in other thread...

If you start selling XLobby, and I buy it, and you decide to pull out of business, because you didin't sell enough copies, my software will failm because it checks licences on your (non existing) server. Now, this sounds even much more worse than even M$!!!

As for the pricing.... I really don't care, as long as it's not really, really expensive. I'd rather pay 500$ for something that is OPEN and doesn't check licences (except on install) and respects those 3 points I made, than 100$ for something that will cost another 500$ with all plugins (charging you 50$ for each) and be totaly dependant on your server....

Now, if only MediaPortal isn't that AWFULLY HARD TO SKIN....

Just my 2 czech crowns....


D.

[Wayne123]

I've been very quiet lately waiting to see what's going to happen... I see that everyone's as nervous as I am, and I have to agree, if not woth points other have raised, then with the general feeling of being a bit lost and looking into competition, in my case, MediaPortal.

First of all, I dislike the fact that there are going to be several XLobby versions. Reminds me of M$, and their several Vista versions or MS Office... What if the feature I need is 400$ more expensive than the basic version - even worse, what if this PRO version has several other features I don't need and only 1 I do?

Or even worse, (IMHO the worst scenario that could happen) if you follow meedio's footsteps and sell each plugin separately? Now, I'd REALLY hate that! It would really slow down the development by external authors.

Second, if I pay for the s/w, I expect it's mine. I hate this M$ bull$hit, "we're renting you software for 3 year period" stuff. I want it to continue working, no matter what happens to the company that made it.

Third, I don't want the s/w to be dependant (in technical sense) to the site/server of the software company that made it. Speaking of licence stuff Steven mentioned in other thread...

If you start selling XLobby, and I buy it, and you decide to pull out of business, because you didin't sell enough copies, my software will failm because it checks licences on your (non existing) server. Now, this sounds even much more worse than even M$!!!

As for the pricing.... I really don't care, as long as it's not really, really expensive. I'd rather pay 500$ for something that is OPEN and doesn't check licences (except on install) and respects those 3 points I made, than 100$ for something that will cost another 500$ with all plugins (charging you 50$ for each) and be totaly dependant on your server....

Now, if only MediaPortal isn't that AWFULLY HARD TO SKIN....

Just my 2 czech crowns....


D.

I agree with what you say, I don't mind having to pay $500 or so for the pro version but I hate any software that requires the software to connect to a website before you use it for the very reasons you state. I don't know if Xlobby will be around in a few years as a pay program and I don't want to get stuck with software I can't use if I change computers and Xlobby didn't survive.

[Marbles_00]

I'd rather pay 500$ for something

I'd rather pay 500$ for something that is OPEN

You guys would really spend that much on a piece of dedicated software? Each to their own. Unless the software is able to scratch my nuts, it is not worth more than the OS required to run the computer. For my needs, and requirements, I have my price limit, and it is no where close to $500.

If users here have a home theater system, PC, hard drives, touch screens, DSL, etc. and plenty of free time to devote to this website how poor can they be

Wes, I have a family, a mortgage, I work hard, and have to save in order to purchase some of the nicer things in life. My music server and most of the equipment with it..."ebay special". So your comment there, I take a little to heart. Sorry, but that's just the way I am. You don't know me, so don't try and judge me or anyone else on this forum.

[Wayne123]

If you look at the price of other H/A software $500 is not that high,
CQC is $895, Main Lobby is around $1500 if you buy all the add ons,
Prmise Home Control that I use now was like $800-$900 range.

I have Photoshop CS2 and that is $600 dollars for a photo editing program, I think that price is way too high considering you can get most
of its functionality in a $50 program or even free with the Gimp.
If you don"t want to spend money you can get Premise for
free now or you can try Pluto Home.

I didn't always have alot of money for this stuff either but I am older now and have very few bills. I hope they have a cheap version that is around $50 or so that has the audio video stuff like the old Xlobby does with an option to upgrade so they don't price out everybody who may
not have the money for a full blown H/A program now. I think at least half of what I like about Xlobby now is all the great skin and plugin creators that are here now and I would hate to see any of them leave.

[rembetis]

If you look at the price of other H/A software $500 is not that high,
CQC is $895, Main Lobby is around $1500 if you buy all the add ons,
Prmise Home Control that I use now was like $800-$900 range.

All of which are WAY overpriced, and basically feed off the custom installer crowd who can cut a check w/o caring whether it's a $100 or a $1000. Frankly, I took offence to several of Wes's comments, all of which come off basically sounding like PR-speak for "we don't really need you people and you're lucky that Steven is nicer than I am, or we wouldn't be keeping you in the loop at all."

Is abandoning the very people who know the software best, and could potentionally become your best grassroots marketers part of some new business strategy? Because it's becoming painfully clear that Calrad's involvement is all about the high-end crowd, and I'd bet that constitutes a very small percentage of the members here. Seems to me the niche in this market that remains unfilled is the reasonably priced but still full-featured frontend, not another, slightly less expensive MainLobby or CQC.

[scottw]

Wes, I have a family, a mortgage, I work hard, and have to save in order to purchase some of the nicer things in life. My music server and most of the equipment with it..."ebay special". So your comment there, I take a little to heart. Sorry, but that's just the way I am. You don't know me, so don't try and judge me or anyone else on this forum.

Well said. I don't want to speak for anyone else but I came here originally because the software was free. After I used it it did realize how great it was but my first concern was price!
I am in the same boat as Marbles, the most I spent at one time for my whole setup was $300 for a touchscreen and I almost had to sleep on the couch for a month for that I would not even have a multi-zone setup if it were not for the $30 amp posted here (thanks rembetis)
There are people here who have top-end setup's (I would love to be one of them) and they are great but mine is just a simple setup that I as well got piece by piece from "ebay special's".

Most people, like me, don't want to get to involved and all excited about the new feature's if they simply can't afford them.

Thanks,