Home Theater topology and Xlobby

[Cosworth]

Hi,

I'm relatively new here (been lurking and reading a lot), and I'm trying to get familiar with Xlobby. One thing that strikes me is that many users have vary different setups at home, and thus different approaches to Xlobby. Colby for instance has made a great looking skin, but without a PPC skin. Makes sense if Colby controls his HTPC through other means.

Personally I'd like to control the whole shebang through my PPC (Dell Axim X3i). I'd then listen on my stereo and watch on my TV, but I'd hate to have to turn on a tv for listening to music! - But thats just my taste.

My point is this: Xlobby's flexibility is both a blessing (for most) and a curse (for newbies). I'd love to share ideas, skins etc. with people that share my topology in their HT and not drool over beautiful skins that I can't use (except for ripping off buttons, which can be nice too).

The point of my point is Would it be an idea to have usage based forums i.e. "PPC centered", "Keyboard centered", "Music lovers", "Movie buffs" etc.
It sure would have helped me in the already steep learning curve.

[Roscoe62]

Hi Cosworth.

I too am a PPC-remote user. I'd also like to see the PPC control my whole system and it's something I'm constantly pushing for. It's been great to see the advances made in this area, although I still think there's a long way to go.

I might be wrong but I think PPC users are still a minority here, and I don't know whether a topology based forum approach would work at this stage. XLobby, although it's come a LONG way, is still in it's infancy although if the user-base continues to grow the way it has been this idea may be worth revisiting.

In the meantime I'm happy to keep pushing for some of the changes I'd like to see for the PPC interface, but it all takes time and Steven is just one guy trying to grow his product and respond to lots of different requests at the same time. The more voices wanting the same change adds to the likelihood that Steven will find time to code it so in the end the majority rule.

If you REALLY want to see a change, post it in the feature requests and hope that others want it too.

Just my $0.02c

Out of curiousity, what kind of changes would you like to see?

Roscoe

[Colby]

Yes the PPC users are the minority here. Most of us cant afford, or dont use a PPC. Those of us skin engineers dont usually make the ppc screens initially because it is a lot of work for something we will never use. I know for me that its hard to create a intuitive ppc skin since I dont event own a palm. Not that we should ignore you. The beauty of Xlobby is that is "customizable". If you Xlobby doesnt suit your needs, than change it.

xlobby is so versitile that having "PPC centered", "Keyboard centered", "Music lovers", "Movie buffs" etc. forums doesnt make since in my opinion. for instance a tip or trick to play trailers in movie forum will also be helpful in making music videos in the music form. simplicty of ppc screens would be similar to what remote users forumn would want. And touchscreen users forum would benefit advice in ppc forums.

I would recommend listing exactly what it is you want, and someone like myself could make it for you. I agree the learning curve is hard for beginners, Ive been there.

[Cosworth]

Out of curiousity, what kind of changes would you like to see?
Roscoe

This may be basic stuff for you guys, but here goes:

Overall I'm looking for versatility in the usage e.g.
- Watch a trailer on the PPC while the kids are watching TV
- Sometimes look at the familiy album on the PPC, then at other times send the pictures to the TV, while browsing the thumbnails on the PPC.
etc.

Even more basic I haven't been able to show pictures, weather forecasts and EPG on the PPC.

And even more basic - how do I minimize Xlobby on the PPC?

@Colby - I can understand why you didn't do the PPC screens. I wouldn't have either if I didn't have a PPC.

Well - I might have to be a little more specific on some of this. Next time perhaps.

[sdumas]

My only gripes with the PPC interface is the lack of persistent connectivity.

if you reboot your Xlobby server, the connection will be lost and not recovered, you have to launch it again. If the PPC goes to sleep it will lose its connection.

For pictures and other stuff, you just have to create the proper skin, it should work!

[Roscoe62]

I get around the PPC going to sleep syndrome by changing the settings within the device to never turn off the wifi card and to never go to sleep. It's worked pretty well so far, but of course the danger is that you MUST return the device to the cradle once you're done using it or it's going to lose power. For me it's a small price to pay just to have all functions available.

I've also developed the habit of killing the PPC Xlobby client before rebooting the server.

Sorry Cosworth, I'm not aware of any means to minimise the XLobby client. As far as viewing weather on the PPC, Jowaldo tantalised us with a very nice looking PPC weather screen in his latest skin, but unfortunately he hasn't posted that yet. I think looking at how he's done that would open up a lot of doors towards getting a lot of the functions you mention. I don't know about the viewing a trailer via PPC though. I'd imagine that would chew up huge gobs of bandwidth.

A couple of things I'd like to see for the PPC are:
- The ability to dial-up, or dial-down the image quality of the PPC screens. That way, those with limited bandwidth or slower devices could tailor it so they can still get reliable performance.
- Automatic PPC screen refreshes. Even, dare I say it, Online screen refreshes? That way you can keep an eye on whereabouts in a song you are instead of having to tap the screen all the time. Maybe this is something you could switch on/off OR dial-up or down.
- I use a serial plug-in within Girder to control all aspects of my pre/processor. It's also capable of querying the current state of some things on the pre/pro - such as current volume level, Dolby Digital or DTS etc. I'd love to see a way of harvesting that info and displaying it on the PPC.

All of these changes would be great, but they're in the "nice to have" category. There's other stuff I'd rather see implemented first. Support for the PPC hardbuttons is a big one.

Anyway, I've rambled on for too long as it is, and this probably isn't the right place to put this stuff.

Cheers

[Cosworth]

Managed to get some primitive weather & picture screen running - So it's a newbie thing - sorry anout that.
I guess there's only trial & error and the always useful "steal with pride" from someone else.

[Roscoe62]

Absolutely!

At this stage of the game it's almost impossible to get what you want without lifting up the hood and getting your hands dirty. It's quite a fun way to learn though, and there are some excellent teachers around here.

Good luck!

[elchook]

I'm with you Roscoe - the hardbuttons would be the things to take the PPC from cool toy to effective remote. A way to keep the connection alive when the screen goes to sleep would be great, too - the cradle wears pretty thin.

[Aaron]

I have a SimPad (800x600 WinCE 4.1) so I can run the PPC client also. I like it but the lack persestant connection, mine will not go "full screen", and the lack of auto-refresh is a pain.

Steve,
Are you looking at addressing the PPC shortcomings? I think more and more people will use PPCs as thier "remote" for thier home theaters and home automation especially as they get cheaper (like the Dells) and used ones on eBay continue to drop in price.

[Roscoe62]

Guys,

For me, it was hearing that XLobby was going to support using a PPC as a remote that prompted me to buy a PPC in the first place!

Anyway, inside my Dell Axim PPC there were a few settings that I tweaked. One was to always have the wifi connection on (i.e. never go to sleep) and the second was to not let the PPC itself go to sleep. These 2 steps have worked really well in keeping the connection alive. I think I might have gotten these tips off Smurgle who I suspect is a bit of a PPC wizkid. I suspect these same settings would exist inside most PPC devices.

Affini, I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that your PPC screens won't go "full screen" because they weren't designed for an 800x600 resolution? I think the "standard" PPC screen resolution is 240x320. If that's the case you may have to go into the skin editor and design PPC screens specifically for your resolution (or talk REEEAAALLLLY nicely to the skin author! ). Actually, now that I think about it, another thing you could do is make copies of all the control screens, change the resolution to 800x600 and rename them as PPC screens in the skin editor. That might work.

As far as the screen refresh issue goes, I ended up posting that as a feature request, and Steven came back to say that function is already available and how to do it. Check out the thread there. The only downside is that it's still a bit buggy and may not let you close the client.

It's a great feature to have and it'd be awesome to have it work reliably. Now that I know that function is there, I'm hoping Steven will find the time to iron out those bugs so I'll bump the topic every now and then, but I could use some help! Majority rules as far as Steven's development time goes and because PPC users are a minority it's important that you put your hand up for these feature requests or bug fixes, or accept facing a long, long wait.

The other thing is hardbuttons. Elchook this is a huge one for me. Having the touchscreen is great, but having the most often used functions available on hard buttons (like volume up/down, channel up/down and navigation) would be so much faster and a lot more convenient. Not to mention freeing up real estate on the screens for more or bigger eye candy. There is a sticky in the feature requests forum for this, but Steven's busy on more important stuff. Maybe if he knew there was more than a couple of people interested in this a higher priority would be placed on it.

Here's hoping.

Cheers
Ross

[MFan]

There is a lot of good thought put into the ideas for ppc useage in this thread. Some of the ideas posted might seem 'out there' today, but who knows, maybe Steven will have them as mainstream items in a few months.

Regarding the lack of work on ppc screens, check out the body of work by jowaldo, in particular, and the applicability of some of colby's work. These guys have applied some real talent and imagination to xlobby and the ppc.

I am reworking some of colby's themes for ppc usage - check out the thread in Announcements. Originally, I had done a complete set of screens for music control, Sage TV control and remote control for all of my A-V devices using objects I got from decompiling ccf's that I got off of remotecentral.com. They look kind of rough compared to the work of others.

I have decided I want to convert to colby's theme, but I have discovered that I don't have much value for the remote control screens. So I will probably only work over the music, Sage and maybe some home movie screens over to the colby theme. Unless I get really bored.

Well, I will stop rambling now.

Don

PS: HARD BUTTONS!! HARD BUTTONS!!

[rhinoman]

I have a SimPad (800x600 WinCE 4.1) so I can run the PPC client also. I like it but the lack persestant connection, mine will not go "full screen", and the lack of auto-refresh is a pain.

I've not tried it with a ce device but you can use the xlobby client on a regular pc so it should work just fine on the slimpad, instead of trying to use the PPC screens, just use the normal ones, the client will automatically resize to 800*600, just have the server text file as serverip:menu .

I have to vote with Roscoe, as far Xlobby's advantage over most of the competitiors is the PPC support. I barely use my touchscreen anymore because the PPC is more convenient. A few extra features and/or fixes would put it streets ahead.

I know perhaps we are in the minority but with PPC's getting cheaper all the time it will only become more accessable, for mutiroom its a real no brainer, much easier and cheaper than wireless tablets and this will help bring in the people that might otherwise buy one of the hifi manufacturers offerings that use a similar control.

[Roscoe62]

Exactly right John,

And another advantage over traditional remotes is no longer having to rely on line-of-sight transmission! I currently use a Pronto and have a number of macros built in, but it's amazing how easily one or several of the IR commands gets "lost" screwing up the whole effect, let alone trying to train relatives....."no, no, you have to POINT the remote over there!"

With the PPC you don't have to worry about ANY of that! I can be anywhere in the house (and even outside on the deck) and still issue the commands and know they'll get through and work perfectly.

All this AND being able to scroll through your music or DVD collection without needing a display on. Try doing THAT on a programmable remote control! It's definitely the way forward.

No, I don't sell PPC's for a living, and Yes, I AM slightly obsessed about using them.

Hmmmm.....maybe I should sell them for a living!

[Cosworth]

Hey - I don't feel alone out here as a PPC user anymore - Great

Managed to get the weather & picture screen running. Now all I need is to install some artistic talent.

I'm a believer now as far as Xlobby is concerned. Huge potential. High wife acceptance factor too, just from getting rid of the "point it there honey" issues.

Now let's stir up Steve's attention, to address some of the issues.

One more thing. Roscoe or Mfan - couldn't the rest of us entice you to start a PPC FAQ with tips like how to refresh and other stuff?